Joel’s Army – The Lord’s Army? Or Hell’s Army?

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This topic contains 43 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Moritz 3 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #9835

    Moritz
    Participant

    Hey everyone,
    it´s uncanny how many of the points mentioned before (three days of darkness, fire in the sky etc.) are actually linked to the so-called prophecies about “Joel´s army” or “Manifest Sons of God”. Over the last days I put together a little compilation to check if others can see these links too.

    0. Preface

    I´m not so much bothered by a description of a certain astronomical event itself. In fact, I think it is actually very likely that there is some massive heavenly body in our solar system with an eccentric long-stretched orbit that is crossing the inner circle of planets occasionaly. Depending on how close it and its tail of cosmic debris gets to Earth it could have more or less severe effects (not only through bombardment with meteors and atmospheric disturbances but by tilting the earth´s axis or causing sudden tectonic shifts, breaking up or flooding entire continents, maybe even exotic interactions between near-by heavenly bodies like plasma discharges or increased solar flare activity) . I suppose God already could have used the direction and proximity of this physical thing (no matter if it´s a single Planet X or even a small brown dwarf star with its own satellites) to deal judgment in the past, i.e. Noah´s Flood.

    It could also very well explain why the axis and orbit of Neptune and Uranus and their various moons are screwed up today. Mars is now devastated but had oceans and an atmosphere in the past. And there are theories that the astroid belt between Mars and Jupiter was once a planet (sometimes called Rahab) that was completely ripped apart. Christian researches like the late David Flynn or Steve Quayle today assume that there might have been dwelling-places of an angelic or non-adamic power in our solar system that were smashed to pieces in a cosmic cataclysm.

    The point is that the signs in the sky in Revelation would fit this pattern as well (“But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be”, Matthew 24:37-39). Since Satan and arguably a bunch of intelligence agencies know that there´s something on its way they would want to prepare not only their Continuity of government plans but also some explanations for the people when things start to get weird. I wrote this just to say: Even if some signs in the sky come to pass that are foretold in certain prophecies, it doesn´t mean that the source of the prophecy is automatically good and we would have to just believe the rest of the message. It could be truth (advanced knowledge) mixed with lies. Well, there are Catholic prophecies that tell us to stay inside during the terrible three days off darkness and light candles to the Virgin Mary for protection. Okay, let´s say we will indeed see three days of darkness in the future, should we then just embrace the doctrines of the Vatican because an apparition of “Mary” told us so?

    #9836

    Moritz
    Participant

    Ok, then let´s look at some modern prophecies that popped up recently (you can find them by browsing 444prophecynews)

    1. Message 65: Before And After The 3 Days Of Darkness – Cliff Coffman, Mark Chen

    1) Extreme & Odd Red Skies —> Get into your house. Gather your immediate family, pets, water, canned food and do it quickly. Prepare for 3-days of complete darkness outdoors. The power will be off. Do not venture out. Keep windows and doors shut and locked. Curtains drawn closed. Do not even attempt to look outside during the darkness. You will see the red skys beforehand. This will be a sign.
    2) Massive Worldwide Earthquake —> Stay in your house or the “Goshen” (safe house) you were directed to by the Holy Spirit. If you are who you should be your house will be protected from destruction supernaturally or you will be moved elsewhere to a safe Goshen by the HS. Either way, stay indoors. Prepare for the 3-days of darkness. You will feel the earth move. This will be a sign.
    3) Terrestrial/Cosmic Worldwide Event—> Same as above. Get into your house. If you are who you should be then you will be protected supernaturally in your house. Again, prepare for the 3-days of darkness happening soon after a huge cosmic event. You will see the event. This will be a sign.
    4) 3-Day of Darkness: what to do during Pt.1 —> STAY INDOORS!!! If you are who you are supposed to be you will have LIGHT indoors. How you ask? God will supply it supernaturally. In some cases, food and water will be supplied as well on a case by case basis by God.
    IMPORTANT! During the 3-days of darkness, YOU WILL HEAR STRANGE things outside your home. You might even hear the familiar voice of a family member calling you to come outside and help them. STOP! Do not venture outdoors. It’s a trick. Do not look out a window. It’s not who you think it is.
    WHY YOU ASK? Because the Lord Jesus has instructed many messengers that we are NOT to venture outdoors or open the windows, curtains or blinds. Here’s why. At this time during the 3-dod, many powerful and extremely evil demons will have been released onto the earth. They are looking for anyone they might kill, possess and terrorize. That includes you.
    These are freshly released, wild-eyed devils right out of the pits of hell. They are extremely malevolent and hungry for human blood. They have been given license to murder, possess, terrorize, rape, burn, pillage and torture anyone they find outdoors and unprotected by God. These demon spirits will manifest themselves in many shapes, forms and sizes. The will take the form of extraterrestrials, E.T.s, hideous and repulsive forms that are frightening to look upon. These demons will even take the form of humans both dead and alive. SO DONT BE FOOLED!

    This is mostly quoted to show the description of the three days of darkness. Sounds fairly reasonable to this point. I wouldn´t want to go outside or open the doors. But remember the last two sentences.

    5) 3-Days of Darkness: what to do Pt. 2 —> Gather your family around you. Explain to them what you know. Read your Bible to them. Pray together for protection. Stay in prayer as much as possible. Wait for the all clear when the daylight returns. Then seek out other Christians.
    IMPORTANT!: You may have a family member that is very close to the Lord Jesus disappear sometime during the 1st day of darkness. DO NOT FREAK OUT! It’s a good thing. You will be informed of this by an angel that will appear to the rest of the family INSIDE your house when it happens. DO NOT go outside looking for that person!!!
    The Lord Jesus has taken that person, who is one of God’s elect, away to a safe place for special training and edification. Not to worry! That person will return after the 3-dod has ended. You will see that loved one again. Follow their instructions to the letter and everything will be fine.

    Ok, the last two sentences right here kinda contradict the warning before. Shouldn´t you test the person who disappeared for three days to make sure it´s the same one returning?

    6) THE HARVEST BEGINS! —> (NOT THE RAPTURE YET) This will be a very busy time for the Elect of the Bride of Christ to begin to bring in all those luke warm Christians that were clueless about Jesus’ plan. It will also be a time to win lost souls for Jesus. A special group of multiple 1000s of chosen Christians called the Elect, will begin roaming all over the earth supernaturally to start winning people to Christ. They will be sent out and work in groups of two.
    These Elect will also be assisted by millions of Gods warrior angels that will be stationed on earth for this particular Harvest period. These angels will afford protection and logistics for those new people being saved and brought into the Kingdom. These new Christians that are being saved will be ushered to safe locations around the world to wait for the end of that particular Harvest period. This Harvest period will probably last 40 to 50 days. The exact number of days is up to Father God and has not specially been revealed to His Messengers.
    The special Elect members of the Bride will be impervious to any and all of satans attacks while they work the Harvest around the world. These ones can travel at light speed arriving anywhere instantly. Good people everywhere around the world will recognize these chosen ones by sight. They will glow with their new glorified bodies given to them personally by Jesus Himself. People that want to be saved or redeemed and want to know Jesus as their personal savior will run and flock to these Elect ones. The people that want it will be ministered to at that time and be lead to receive Jesus.
    These Elect are untouchable by the enemies of God. They can go anywhere and do anything. They cannot be stopped by walls, fences, bullets or bombs. They can reach out to any person no matter where they might be kept or imprisoned. These Elect have a very specific job to do and a limited amount of time to do it. They are on a mission for GOD and nothing will stop them from accomplishing it to God’s full contentment.

    We´ve talked before about the various problems with the idea of an earthly transfiguration prior to the return of Jesus, of men transforming into Christian super soldiers, gibborim if you will, supernatural mighty men. It almost sounds like Christianese synonym for transhumanism, less techy but with more sparklings.

    7) At Harvest End; RAPTURE! —> Keep in mind, that during this particular Harvest time much is happening in the world. Chaos will be the order of the day. There will be mass destruction from many natural disasters that are taking place, worldwide earthquakes, flooding, volcanic eruptions, wars, tsunamis, food shortages, fresh drinking water will be non existent. Looting, murders, demonic manifestations will be commonplace. Governments will have collapsed around the world. Nothing will be the same, no one will be safe outside of Gods hand of protection. But, there is something even more devastating that happens during the 3-days of darkness… and that is all young children under the physical and spiritual age of accountability will be taken from the earth By Gods angels.
    This will cause worldwide mass pandemonium when parents cannot suddenly locate their babys and young children. Many parents will lose their minds. Many will attempt suicide. Many will curse God and die. But many will also thank God that their children do not have to go through the horror taking place on the earth at that time. Those parents will seek Gods help and forgiveness and come to know Him and join their children once again after the Harvest is over and they are raptured.
    Then comes the RAPTURE. The time or day no one but God the Father knows. This is officially known as the “Second Rapture” since technically, a kind of mini-rapture took place when God removed His comparatively small group of chosen Elect during the 1st day of darkness for training. Remember them? If not, go back and reread from the beginning.

    Ah yes, looks like we´ve got multiple raptures – it´s “officially known”

    1) From what the Lord has confirmed to me, the young ones under the age of accountability will be taken to safety in a Rapture-situation BEFORE the Great Darkness commences, not during the 3 Days of Darkness. They will not be here to suffer the fear of these terrible signs which initiate the Great Darkness. 2) As for the Elect who are gathered away first during the Great Darkness, we won’t be going up to heaven at that time, as our training will be on earth. Hence, it isn’t strictly an ascension-type Rapture. 3) We have to remember that God the Father and His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, will be VISITING EVERY LIVING SOUL ON EARTH during the time of the Great Darkness. They will remove the spiritual veil, and every person will have to make a choice then to either believe and receive Jesus Christ into their lives, or to persist in their sin and rebellion.

    So prior to his second coming Jesus shows up for his 1.5th coming? It won´t be like every eye shall see him (Revelation 1:7), instead you have private Meet&Greet or perhaps you have to follow your dead relative or some angel into the wilderness or some secret chamber (Matthew 24:26), huh?

    Now, I know a lot of this stuff is extra biblical and it freaks a lot of very good folks out. This includes me as well at times. But Christians need to remember that God is doing a new thing and we are in the very last days.

    Ya think?

    #9837

    Moritz
    Participant

    Don´t blame me, the following text was already formatted that way. Apparently the caps lock key on this poor woman´s keyboard is broken

    <2. „3 DAYS OF DARKNESS“ – Angela Whitworth (January 9, 2018) <

    THE 3 DAYS OF DARKNESS WILL BEGIN IN THE NIGHT WHEN THE COMET/ ASTEROID HITS THE EARTH. THE FOLLOWING 3 DAYS WILL BE DARKNESS AND THEN THE SUN WILL GIVE ITS LIGHT AGAIN ON THE 4TH DAY.
    WHERE EVER YOU ARE AT … IF AT WORK THEN STAY AT WORK FOR 3 DAYS … IF AT HOME THEN STAY AT HOME FOR 3 DAYS … DURING THESE DAYS SEEK THE LORD AND STAY BEFORE HIM. DO NOT OPEN YOUR DOORS TO ANYONE … DO NOT LOOK OUTSIDE! EVEN IF IT SOUNDS LIKE ONE OF YOUR RELATIVES!
    DO NOT GO OUTSIDE AND DO NOT LOOK OUTSIDE.
    WHY IS THAT YOU MIGHT ASK? BECAUSE THE LORD SAID TO ME “MY WRATH WILL BE IN THE 3 DAYS OF DARKNESS AND THERE IS “NO MERCY” IN MY WRATH”!
    THE FATHER DOES NOT WANT US TO LOOK INTO HIS WRATH BECAUSE IT WILL CAUSE YOU TO BECOME FEARFUL!
    […]

    DURING THE 3 DAYS OF DARKNESS JUST STAY BEFORE THE LORD IN PRAYER AND AT THIS TIME GOD’S GLORY WILL BE POURED OUT ON HIS TRUE CHILDREN, AND WE WILL BE MINISTERED TO BY ANGELS. THEN ON THE 4TH DAY WE WILL GO OUT AND GATHER IN THE LAST GREAT HARVEST BEFORE THE RAPTURE TAKES PLACE. WE WILL MINISTER SALVATION AND MIRACLES TO OTHERS.
    […]

    I SAW THE TRUE CHILDREN OF GOD PROTECTED AND GOING OUT INTO THE UTTERMOST PARTS OF THE EARTH TO DO GOD’S GATHERING … ANGELS WERE WITH US AT ALL TIMES AND WE WERE HAPPY … EVEN LAUGHING AT TIMES. I FELT SUCH JOY DOING WHAT GOD HAD CALLED ME TO DO. WE KNEW IT WOULD NOT BE LONG FOR THE RAPTURE TO TAKE PLACE … AND JUST AS SOON AS THE LAST SOUL RECEIVED SALVATION … THEN I HEARD THE GREAT TRUMPET SOUND OF THE LORD, AND THE RAPTURE SUDDENLY TOOK PLACE … FASTER THAN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE! AND WE WERE GONE TO THE MARRIAGE SUPPER OF THE LAMB! THEN THE EARTH WENT INTO THE 7 YEAR TRIBULATION PERIOD.

    The wrath of God is the very last thing that´s coming upon the earth, after the tribulation (which is Satan´s wrath), so the timeline doesn´t make any sense in my opinion. Plus the twinkling of an eye really refers to 1 Corinthians 15:52 (In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed). And how can the last soul receive salvation before the tribulation even begins?

    #9838

    Moritz
    Participant

    Now this is a prophetic word that´s remarkable for all the wrong reasons


    3. The Illuminated Ones – Sister Gwendolen Rix
    The Illuminated Ones – A Prophetic Word from Messenger G. Rix
    1-11-14

    It will be a day like none other. Or will it be a “night” like none other? It will be during the three days of darkness that some very magical events take place all across the earth. During a very powerful conversation with my Lord and Savior this afternoon, he wanted to share with the Bride some newer information regarding what he“ calls “The Grandest Illumination of All Time!” It will be far greater in its significance than a Christmas tree lighting in some towne square! It will be far greater than some lame Super Bowl half time show! This event will trump every other great event that has ever occurred on the face of the planet at any time in its existence. It is THE GRANDEST OF DAYS.
    It will last for approximately 72 hours explains the Lord of Hosts.
    When we see this mighty event occur across the planet, an asteroid the size of a football stadium hitting the ocean near the waters of Puerto Rico; know that this is the event that ushers in the first set of the two sets of three days of darkness. Yes, that’s right! There are two separate events that cause three days of darkness. The first event is an asteroid. The second event is a manmade nuclear event. I want to make this perfectly clear in order that the Bride of Christ can see why there are so many varying stories about the three days of darkness.
    […]
    I will explain the Grand Illumination as it has been explained to me. This will be the most spectacular supernatural phenomenon. The asteroid will cause the balance of the earth’s poles to shift thus creating darkness and demagnetizing of the earth’s poles. The distance and the evolving of the earth to other objects in outer space will shift greatly. Even some stars in the sky will fall during this event. Be ready to see many fires and many catastrophes simultaneously. The Lord has shown some of his prophets these devastating events. I recently read one from Prophet Kevin Mirasi in which power lines were down and there were buildings on fire. Surely the Lord does nothing without letting his prophets know.
    During this darkness the Lord Jesus Christ will walk the earth in his MIGHTY SHOES OF PEACE. Have you ever experienced the true peace of our Savior? I mean TRULY experienced a sudden sobbing and the doors of your heart flying open? He visited me when I was in California for a month last year doing ministry work. He touched my heart in a way that no one could ever imagine. The supernatural doors of my heart flew open and he surveyed everything in there. All the hurt, painful relationships, the deep sorrow that the enemy placed in my life, and the Lord Jesus scoured my heart clean. He said he was walking the earth and waking up the Bride.
    […]
    The Lord plans to visit each and every person alive on the planet during these three days of darkness. He plans to demonstrate in real life the possibility of inviting him into your hearts and making it his spiritual home. Can you imagine how happy his face will be when those who have been riding the fence for so long get to experience this ultimate supernatural experience just prior to the rapture of the Bride? Praise God! I know that the experience that I had was so intense that it seems like it was yesterday. Many of our loved ones will indeed come to the fold. Many will be welcomed to the glorious flock of our Eternal Shepherd! We must pray for this event and for our family and friends’ hearts to be prepared for this Great Awakening. Please pray as this is the Lord’s instructions regarding this event.
    […]
    Some of the tasks that the illuminated ones will be doing will surprise them greatly. Even those who are reading this letter may be disappointed that they were not chosen. The shyest persons will be preaching to large crowds at stadiums. The previously crippled ones who were chosen to be illuminated will actually be healing the sick and causing the blind to see. It will be the greatest manifestation of Jesus Christ working throughout the earth at the moments prior to the rapture of the Bride. Demons will be cast out of alcoholics. The abused will be set free. Those who were publicly humiliated for the cause of Christ will be able to shine at this time for their Lord and Savior.

    I included this one because I never heard one of these prophets boldly call the “Manifest Sons of God” the “Illuminated Ones”. And people wonder why we are so suspicious. But apparaently the prophetic yellow press is just like “Amen! I receive this word! Praise Jesus! Halleluja!”

    #9839

    Moritz
    Participant

    Next one, with a message from our sponsor:


    4. „3 BOWLS REPRESENTING THE GIFTS GIVEN TO THE HOLY CHILDREN OF GOD DURING THE 3 DAYS OF DARKNESS“

    Prophetic word received by messenger Gwendolen Song
    From Jehovah Nissi, April 29, 2015

    I am a God that likes to keep His subjects informed at all times. In the dream, I showed My daughter a series of events that were happening upon the earth. I showed her that she was invited to a most beautiful wedding and I even told her to purchase a gift for her Groom. I showed her purchasing 3 large bowls for a wedding gift, which is symbolic of the 3 days of darkness. I would like all of My Holy children to hear their Creator this day. Please, dear children, gather water and supplies for the upcoming 3 days of darkness. Each of the bowls represents a special outpouring of my goodness to My Holy children. Each day of the 3 days of darkness will represent an outpouring from the Groom’s Father to the children of the earth. Yes, it is true, My Holy children. I am going to pour out gifts unto your laps during the upcoming 3 days of darkness. Each day My Holy children who sought Me and My Son, and prepared themselves for the Wedding Supper of the Lamb will be given special gifts which are likened to a special anointing. I want to see each of My children’s faces when they receive these gifts.

    My children, it will truly be like Christmas morning for many of you as you have celebrated Christmas throughout your lifetime. As many of you know Santa Claus was a scam from day one. I am the Lord God almighty and what I have in store for My children is eternal bliss and eternal salvation. I will bring each of you into My Son’s bridal chamber and you will consecrate your wedding vows. I am a most delighted Father of the Groom, dear children. A most delighted Father indeed.

    I also want to take the time to explain to you that within the dream that I delivered to My daughter that I showed her a timeline of events. I did dearest ones. I showed her that the catastrophic world events like tornadoes and tsunamis occur after the 3 days of darkness, after the peace accord is signed. The signing of the peace accord is the first domino to fall that will send the rest of the world spiraling out of control. I have two very strong verses in My Holy word that I have to review with My Holy children this day. First of all, whoever divides My Holy land I will divide theirs.
    Secondly, do not touch My anointed ones. I am a most serious God when it comes to My anointed children. I do not want to see others tearing them down in private or in public. Serious consequences will occur. Do not think that I do not hear the words spoken in private concerning My precious servants. Do not grieve your Creator Children. Do not harm My anointed servants with your divisive words.

    Yeah, you better believe these prophets or just be quiet, you bible-thumpers!

    #9840

    Moritz
    Participant

    And the last one, same prophet as in the first example:

    5. Nibiru And The Coming Alien Invasion – Mark Chen (May 4, 2016)
    “Await the full baptism of the latter rains, for it has already begun and the completed time of this glorious baptism shall soon come, when I pour forth My Spirit and My Power into those empty vessels of faith and obedience. These are My children who have died completely to their own selfish will, and who live daily by My sovereign Will for them. These are the mighty saints of God, who understand what it means to be fully surrendered to Me. Indeed, they are the ‘dead-in-Christ’ saints of God.“

    Isn´t this the weirdest new twisting of Scripture? I’ve seen this one a lot lately in the “prophetic community”. In truth, the dead-in-Christ are clearly the departed believers of the last two milennia. This term was ripped from 1 Thessalonians 4. There Paul explained that “we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep” (verse 15); it´s meant to comfort the relatives who lost a family member for example (“Therefore encourage one another with these words”, 1 Thessalonians 4:18; ).

    You don´t need to look for a whole new esoteric concept or secret teaching; the dead-in-Christ are just that: “For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him. ” (1 Thessalonians 4:14)

    But since these “new super Christians” don´t read their Bible and don´t care for context, it´s easy for some astral wormtongue to get them hooked on this merde (excuse my French). It´s a shame that I have to resort to such language to find an adequate expression. Shame on them!
    (but seriously, if someone wonders about strong language I suggest studying with what explicit terms God is describing his adulterous wife Jerusalem in Ezekiel 16 and 23 in the original language to bring His point across)

    “Stand at the ready now, My soldiers, for the time of reckoning approaches, and only those whom I have counted as worthy to be among My holy Bride will experience the glorious transfiguration of their mortal bodies by the full infusion of My Holy Spirit within them. After your transfiguration and training, you shall be able to meet the alien demons in battle without harm, for the power of God will be made clearly manifest in you then. You are the end-time Army of God, My beloved saints, and you have victory in My Holy Name!

    Yeah sure, grab thy holy handgrenade and thy blessed chainsaw and aim for the elongated head.

    Well look, it´s admittetly a shame that the Codex Adeptus Astartes Space Marines didn´t make it into the canon of Scripture but we just have to be patient; I´m sure we´ve got plenty of time for a galactic reconquista on weekends during the Millennium. So don´t you get me wrong: The fact that I don´t really see a God-ordained glorious crusade in the last days of this age doesn´t mean we can´t have one after that.
    Of course I´m just kidding… or am I? Fun fact: I´m really not.

    #9841

    Moritz
    Participant

    6. Conclusion

    Is it not written:
    “When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”(Luke 18:8)

    Now take this sentiment and compare it with the spirit of the new prophecies about an Earth conquered by an illuminated magical superforce with undeniable dominance. Nuff said.

    Perhaps we should get used to the idea that the real Christians in the last days have only one thing left: their faith in and knowledge of Scripture. Faith in spite of all the signs and wonders and alternative Christianese sounding doctrins the enemy can come up with.

    This conclusion is shorter than I initially expected but what more is there to say?

    Perhaps that in the beginning of my Christian walk I always gave strange prophets the benefit of the doubt, and eventually made excuses in my mind like “Ah, they did mean well / they probably misspoke or misheard /…“ but more and more I came to the realization that there is probably a dark agenda going on because all these new prophecies basically contain similar elements and the same reckless or even dangerous narrative. Every single module (New Apostolic Reformation/Emerging church/Hebrew Roots/Manifest Sons of God etc.) is like a knot in a giant new fishing net to catch men who identify as Christians. That´s why I decided to sound the alarm because I don´t want to have their blood on my hands. Better safe (saved by grace through faith) than sorry.

    #9844

    MattS
    Senior Moderator

    Moritz, when I read these “so-called” prophetic words that you have posted here, it seems that it comes straight out of the New Age handbook of the “Dawning of the Age of Aquarius”, or a Rick Joyner workshop manual for the “Manifested Sons of Joel’s Army of the Latter Rains Company” (I made that up).

    The New Apostolic Reformation folk are accused of adding “New Revelation” to scripture and in particular God’s prophetic words in scripture. C Peter Wagner (deceased former leader of NAR) denied that these were “New Revelations” because they lined up with scripture. In my opinion, this is just playing fast and loose with using a scriptural quote, adding whatever you will to it and calling it the “Word of the Lord”. As result, it has given license to and spawned this flood of these ‘so-called” prophetic words. You can say whatever you please, add scripture to it, hold your breath, count to 40 million and some of it might have happened, (the scriptural bits). However, for the NAR folk, they are allowed to get prophecy wrong. On Cindy Jacob’s Generals International Website there is a article that says it’s okay to get prophetic words wrong because you are just practicing. This is like “the boy who cried wolf”. People like myself start ignoring prophetic words from man, and I wonder if I have missed genuine prophetic words because of my cynicism and dismissal of this flood of “so-called” prophetic words.

    I would rather be reading a genuine God inspired prophetic word any day. I would rather not be spending my time writing about false teachings or heresy, I would rather be reading God’s word and hearing from a Holy Spirit inspired teacher of the scripture, but, because of the times that we live in I am inspired by 1 John 4:6, to continue to read the Holy Spirit inspired words of the true Jesus appointed Apostles, for “by this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error”.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  MattS.

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    #9873

    Moritz
    Participant

    A comparison just came into my mind:

    In the time before Christ the Israelites were debating the details of the promised messiah. A whole lot of the prophecy-minded people back then were expecting a great ruler to rise who supernaturally empowers their warriors again and let their prosperous empire take over the world’s governments.

    And when the Messiah came and only offered a cross, they were offended and fell away or turned against the Lord, not recognizing the God they paid lipservice to and disregarding even the stunning real miracles taking place in the lives of ordinary people!

    Now the prophecy-minded people of today are debating the Second Coming of Christ. And the popular new super Christians are expecting to morph into immortal super warriors, laughing their way through the tribulation and conquering the planet.

    So when the tribulation is really still about taking up a cross daily, they will be offended and fall away or turn against the Lord, showing themselves to never have been born again and disregarding even the stunnig real miracles that WILL take place again in the lives of ordinary people!

    #9906

    Sarah
    Participant

    Wow thank you, you two. You gave us so many points to consider and review!

    #9907

    MattS
    Senior Moderator

    Thank you, Sarah 🙂

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    #10035

    Moritz
    Participant

    You know, Matt pointed something out before and the more I think about it, the more I suspect another cunning attack on the value of mankind in the so-called prophecies we talked about: I smell a “deceptive dehumanization” brewing, if you will. So I´d like to rebuke that and offer some pro-human apologetics.

    a) Adam Forever

    Matt spotted one of the questionable prophets (I think it was Jeff Byerly) stating something like “Thus said the Lord: you won´t be sons and daughters of Adam and Eve anymore” and Matt was rightfully concerned. Indeed, it really sounds like throwing the original concept and initial design of humanity in the trash, like Plan A for Adamic Man was a failed experiment. But God has no Plan B for another class of beings. No, He is not “doing a new thing” here as some of the so-called prophets are implying. He sticks with Plan A. He became an Adam himself (the second or ultimate one at that, see 1.& 2. Corinthians), and literally went through hell to make Plan A work in the end.

    The Eternal Son of God became a son of Man and will stay a Man forever! Jesus is fully God and fully Man. I don´t think the Word of God would have bothered redeeming our species when being human wasn´t intended to be the most majestic thing ever on this plane of existence. We´re here to stay! We will always be sons and daughters of Adam and Eve. And Jesus – the Son of Man, ben-‘adam – is one of us. We, together with him, will represent our kind in the Divine Council and Mankind will preside over it. Man will judge creation and his fellow creatures.

    (“Judge” in the sense of being a ruler or political power holder, like the judges of ancient Israel. Only in modern times we think of this term “judge” as refering exclusively to the judicial branch of the power structure separated from executive and legislative authority. So when Paul proclaims that in the future ‘we are to judge angels’ in 1 Corinthians 6:3, he´s not necessarily talking about putting bad angels to trial but about the fact that we will ultimately outrank angels in general when it comes to the government of the kingdom. Professor Michael Heiser points a whole lot of this stuff out in his highly recommended book “Unseen Realm”).

    Of course, initially Man was created a little lower than the angels (Hebrews 2:7). However, in my opinion the story of the Garden of Eden is the quintessential example of Israel‘s Wisdom literature: Adam and Eve are like children placed in a paradise, where they are to learn to serve God and grow in wisdom and maturity, to move toward spiritual adulthood.

    It’s the story of naivete and immaturity on the part of Adam and Eve and the loss of childlike innocence in an illicit move to grasp at a good thing. Having or gaining knowledge is not “bad” in either Genesis or Proverbs; it is the very picture of what God wants for his people. The issue at stake in the garden narrative is how humans are to obtain such knowledge: in God´s way or in some other way.

    “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding” (Proverbs 9:10). Which amounts to i) Get a healthy scare of how thin the line between truth and deception is, ii) Get to know God by studying his book, iii) Get spiritual discernment as a result. And only then the pre-condition for handling information wisely is fulfilled.

    So, in the end, what´s the final destination of wisdom? “She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her; those who hold her fast will be blessed” (Proverbs 3:18). Well, that´s the tree Adam and Eve should have focused on. If they would have followed the path of wisdom via obeying the Lord they would have arrived as spiritual mature beings. Not only would they have had been allowed to eat from the tree of life, the Lord would have been able to trust them to handle any kind of information wisely.

    But instead this happened: According to Proverbs 9, Folly mimics Wisdom; she calls those “who are simple” and tells them: “food eaten in secret is delicious!”; but “her guests are deep in the realm of the dead”. Does that sound exactly like the fate of Adam and Eve or what?

    Now that Jesus has re-opened the way to the tree of life for everyone that is wise enough to follow Him as a new spiritual beginning, believers shall inherit all things in the end, which means then we also should be able to just ask Him every question that we want because we can actually handle the answers.

    So the primal temptation of Luciferianism, promising exclusive knowledge or hidden enlightenment, is as invalid today as it was in the Garden. If mankind stays true and faithful to the Most High God and our redeemer Lord Jesus, we will eventually get everything from Him. I think this is pretty self-explanatory if one understands the spiritual character of the relationship between God and redeemed mankind: we are his children, we will be called his friends after all (John 15:15). We won´t miss out. We are NOT and were NEVER designed or meant to be merely imprisoned pet-automatons in a permanent outdoor enclosure, as the Snake tried to paint the situation in Eden.

    Thanks to Jesus the Adamites are back on track and will rule and reign in the end. This, brothers and sisters, is our birthright. A there´s no reason for other entities to suspect that Adam would have turned out to be a douche, he surely would have lent some angels the keys to his chariot since it´s nice to be important but more important to be nice. He was made in the image of God and God is sharing and caring all day long even if He´s not contractually obliged to do so.

    To be fair, it is perhaps the greatest mystery ever and I doubt even the good angels understand right now why having Man in the image of God is apparently such a great idea but they trust God to know best, stay loyal to Him and just await the final outcome with joyful anticipation, and that´s cool (shoutout to comrade Michael and comrade Gabriel: you´re cool #noworship). Come to think of it, I´m pretty sure when this age is over there will be some surprising extra rewards for the angels that remained loyal until the end. And wouldn´t it be a nice touch if God assigned humans with the task to come up with said rewards? I´d gladly volunteer to give some beloved heavenly comrade a treat.

    On the other side of the spectrum, if you´re a wicked prideful angel obsessed with your own precious stones and you´re already thinking in your deluded mind that you should be the most high god because you yourself know best how to run the multiverse (looking at you, Shiny One, the Lord rebuke you), then the mere idea of bowing to some primate from Terra would have really sent you into a murderous rage back in the days, right? But joke´s on you: every knee will bow before the Lord Jesus who just happens to be a Man. And after this the rest of us will collect the epic loot you´ll drop while you get reduced to nothing.

    There are probably various non-human intelligences reading or monitoring this forum anyway, so you guys take this as a friendly reminder that it´s in your own best interest to be on the side of Jesus Christ today (btw every sentient being with a bank account can make a donation LOL)

    In the previous postings in this topic you already read all the major concerns how there could be a deceptive endtimes-army that tries to draw in Christians who dream of becoming supernatural mighty men and beating demonic aliens in hand-to-hand combat or so. Here I just want to point out that in the context of deceptive dehumanization you should be very careful to accept a sudden transformation-offer that apparently turns you into something else than a normal human.

    (besides, why on earth should a Man even want to hybridize himself or become a nephilim like Nimrod and settle for demi-god when Mister Lightbearer as well as the full-blown gods of antiquity themselves are ultimately destined to be outranked by Man? That´s the worst deal ever! You´re throwing away your birthright for a mess of pottage. Oh wow, we already have a Bible story with a lesson about this, what a coincidence)

    I even heard multiple accounts of false ministers telling men and women: You´re actually an angel in a human body, sent here to do special operations in the end-times. What a lie! What a not-so-subtle attempt to belittle mankind! The demons behind this doctrine surely got a chuckle out of this. We must stand against this because the value of Man is: the image of God Himself.

    #10037

    Moritz
    Participant

    b) Conscious vessels

    There is another common point in the so-called prophecies we discuss here that´s linked to a dismissive attitude towards Man who is a natural union of body and soul.
    First of all, this body/soul complex of ours is different from the spiritual state of a human (spiritually there´s neither Hebrew nor Greek, neither man or woman in Christ Jesus). The difference between body and spirit explains itself. The soul is probably best understood as your conscious mind, your individual self, your will and emotions. Even spiritually dead humans have souls. If they are not spiritually born again their body and souls will be destroyed. That´s why they should fear the spiritual consequences of their sin if they want to save their soul since the spirit is the anchor that determines our standing in the non-physical realm. Furthermore: If you are born again, your spirit is already seated in heavenly places with Christ right now (Ephesians 2:6), while your body is still decaying down here and your soul is also still troubled by watching and experiencing the decaying world around us. At least for me this logical distinction between soul and spirit makes sense.

    (it would also make sense if genuine spirit beings lack this distinction, having their self-aware mind and will directly hardwired into their spiritual state itself, which would also explain why angels cannot repent/renew their mindset once they are fallen because they are in a fixed state as soon as they cut themselves off from God. On the other hand genuine spirits are fundamentally different from us in that their corporeal appearance is not fixed unlike our bodies. I just want to say that comparing human beings with angelic entities is always a bit like comparing apples and oranges – even regarding their capacity to live or act a certain way)

    According to this premise, there are two extreme errors to avoid:

    First, if you use soul and spirit interchangeably then some scriptures like Eph 2:6 don´t make too much sense because if your conscious mind were in heaven right now you should be able to walk around up there (here are many possibilities for deception because demons can build places on the astral plane and paint it any way they want, so I guess a lot of people were possibly deceived into believing they entered a throneroom or a courtroom in the Third Heaven when they were in fact presented a stage play in the second heaven where fake angels or a fake Jesus sold them false messages or ideas).

    Second, if you totally separate the spirit from your personal soul and make the spirit out to be a separate personal being with its own conscious mind, you open yourself up for a deception as well. To be clear I´m not talking about your spirit being troubled because it is indeed seated in heaven in the holy presence and good influence of the living Christ and you here feel suddenly uneasy when you just gave in to some sinful desires because your spirit is subconsciously reacting to this revolting choice. That´s probably more similar to your body deciding to throw up when it feels like it is poisened by the old food you consciously decided to consum instead of throwing it away.

    No, I´m talking about the dangerous new teaching that your spirit man can appear to your perception as an external entitiy, talking to you and giving you orders you should follow. It´s the same as the New Agers trying to contact or channel their “higher self” which is subsequently appearing to them as an outside personality teaching them and guiding their decisions. One is quick to discern that in the New Age the “higher self” is a demon in disguise masquerading as a spiritually more evolved part of the person coming down to command them around. But sadly there are Christian ministries today that are teaching Christians should meditate or call upon their Spirit man to speak to them and even invite the spirit man to take over the control of the body and kick the soul out of the driver´s seat!
    Hint: It´s not really your spirit man who´s heeding the call! Besides, Caroly Hamlett and Loren Grace wrote about this in their remarkable book “Doctrines of Demons” and warn that this attempt could fracture one´s soul and dissociate your personal identity, leading to DID (formerly known as multiple personality disorder) when your Self is split and talking to itself. That would be bad enough but the worst outcome is certainly that a fallen one introduces himself to be your spirit man (“Don´t be so soulish, let me in”) and you´d grant him a walk-in by your own free will.

    Plus why would I even blindly follow my own spirit man who´s still a creation limited in many ways? Thus the only spirit person I´m interested in actually hearing from is the Holy Spirit Himself because He´s unlimited and infallible for sure.

    Now you might argue: That´s not a realistic scenario at all! Well, according to some problematic “Joel´s army”-type prophecies “the Lord” is demanding men and women to be transformed for special purposes in the last days into “completly emptied vessels”, acting in unison with no mind of their own to be quasi spiritually remote-controlled drones. If there is a deception planned, this could be a demonic network as well where a lot of supposedly Christian people get hijacked and turned into zombified bots. This sounds less like the human experience and more like the Borg.

    I believe that real Christians are still in control of themselves and that God the Holy Spirit is respecting our free will even when He´s encouraging and prompting us to do or say something for the cause of Christ. In the last days we still have to make conscious decisions and actively align all the different things on our minds with the greater purpose – especially when the body is weakened by hunger and the soul is shaken by seeing horrendous things – if we want to proof ourselves to be effective servants.

    #10039

    Moritz
    Participant

    c) In defense of our biology

    Another dehumanizing trope I encountered in the prophetic community was (I think it was also in a word from Jeff Byerly) “the Lord” saying something to the effect of: “I will tell you a secret: Humans are actually angels who were on the fence during Satan´s rebellion and now they are incarnated on earth to make a decision and to return as angels”. Not buying this for a second.

    I have heard along this lines that the transformed super-army, the “manifest sons of god”, will become “pure spirits” (?).Contrary to this would argue that having a body and a soul is a fundamental and defining aspect of mankind and that your soul or the soul of Man in general is fundamentally linked with the body.
    Of course everyone of us is an individual with his or her own personality, characteristics, talents, quirks in the first place (these variations make each one of us so very precious in the eyes of the Lord). But parts of our individual identity are built and developped upon certain basic prerequisites, usually our biological sex comes to mind first.

    It should be wihout question that we identify ourselves as male and female. We have a body image of ourselves which is a core part of our personal self-identification (if it is disturbed we become mentally ill or liberal and want to hate or mutilate ourselves) when we look in a mirror and this is obviously also depending on our sex. Then we´re likely in agreement that male and female souls have their respective unique patterns when it comes to social behaviour, psychological profile, and emotional priorities. So if you´re a female individual your soul shares some personality traits with other women although you are your own person. Same goes for men.
    I don´t see how this would change after the ressurection. Adam and Eve will ressurect as man and woman, and so will their sons and daughters. New Jerusalem won´t be a gender-free zone of amorphous floating orbs.

    We also read that there will be all tongues and nations. There´s probably a big Chinatown in New Jerusalem and I don´t think resurrected Chinese believers will look into a mirror and see a Hebrew face. Our ethnic heritage is also part of our personal identity and of course we will keep it forever. The body of Christ is the only multicultural society that will ever work.
    So yeah, humans as a species are naturally defined by an inner variety of physical and cultural traits. If we would turn into “pure spirits” as some prophets claim, we would effectively cease to be human.

    Another interesting field is the science of ethology (from ethos, not to be confused with ethnology). You don´t have to be a materialist to acknowledge the fact of just how much of regular human behaviour is grounded in the biological settings of our species.
    When God created the Adamites in His image it´s profound that He created us as mammals and not as another class of biological organisms. Why is that? Well, mammals are social creatures, displaying eusociality as the highest level of social organization (from Greek “eu” meaning “good” and social) with characteristics like multigenerational communities, cooperative broodcare and division of labor (certain insects display eusociality as well but their mental capacities are not that great). Compare this to reptiles that lay some eggs and then wander off, how could this creature grasp a father-son-relationship? Related to the advanced family structure or lack thereof, reptiles also show less empathy than mammals but empathy is a very desireable atrribute in a complex social structure. Especially when you are God and you run a Divine Council including different creatures who should get along. Long story short: It makes perfect sense for us to be mammals (plus as a hominid you can care for a garden with your hands and your big brain). Sounds like a plan to me.

    Being a social creature or zoon politikon comes with needs like the need for fellowship for example, the desire for in-group recognition or the impulse to play or interact in a entertaining way that you can also observe in your pet dog (or watch the Youtube video about a French bulldog trying to play with a police horse or the video about a Golden retriever being friends with an elephant. You get the idea). So these are normal characteristics for us too according to the blueprint for the body and soul of our species. When you reject all of this as “carnal” and “soulish” then you can go ahead and reject mankind itself because apparently God created a monster.
    On a somewhat related sidenote, there are also Puritan-style Christians who show some poor discernment by condemning laughing, singing, dancing, playing games and having fun and demand everyone to have a sad face and flagellate themselves in one way or another. Not only is this not healthy for your own specifically human body and and specifically human soul, you won´t be able to do great spiritual things either and be a relatable witness for Christ who evangelises other people. So for the next time an adversary is accusing and shaming you for not constantly doing spiritual things all day: Get behind me, Satan, my biology is not the main issue and it will be perfected soon enough.

    Again, this attack on the body/soul-complex which is an essential characteric of Man, in the name of a “holier than thou”-spirit-only-ism is why I deem these prophecies to be anti-Adamic –propaganda or a specific Christianese version of pro-transhumanism.

    Well, there´s nothing new under the sun. The Gnostic “Christians” also had an aversion against the body. At first glance some people think the Gnostics make a good point because after the fall in Eden our flesh is cursed and weak but the Gnostics teach that the material world itself and its creator is evil and that only spiritual beings are pure and good. This is not the Christian point of view because the material world and the human flesh was good before the fall and it will be restored and ultimately perfected. So there is basically a long tradition of false or misguided Christians demonizing the biology of Man.

    Look, the whole natural creation, biology itself, is currenly still under a curse because of the supernatural event in Eden. But you can still see and praise the remaining /relative beauty when you witness a sunset on a beach and watch all the amazing animals and plants and stars in the sky. Doesn´t change the fact that everything is decaying and dying but if you take a careful look you can recognize the promise of how great nature in general could be and will be in the end.

    And as far as I am concerned, you can still have moments when you´re getting together with fellow men and you can have heart-warming experiences with honest gestures of kindness and amazing sparks of creativity and goodness, regardless of one´s personal faith. Doesn´t change the fact that we´re all under the curse of sin and death and we all need to be born again but if you take a careful look you can recognize the promise of how great human nature in particular could be and will be in the end.

    So if someone truly thinks Man as an embodied soul is just a piece of biological junk that needs to be freed from having a body, then this someone may as well declare the sunset on the beach, the animals and plants and the stars in the sky to be disgusting material junk that needs to be erased.

    While we have problems with our flesh now and we´re inclined to do things with our bodies that can cause spiritual disasters if we don´t check ourselves, that doesn´t mean the whole package of our human biological constitution as a species was flawed from the beginning. It was not. It was only corrupted after the infusion with sin. Only then “fleshly” and “worldly” began to be negative adjectives. As Christians we only have a conflict of flesh and spirit now because our spirit is repaired and the flesh is not yet repaired. So when the flesh and the material world is finally restored and perfected, wouldn´t “fleshly” and “worldly” cease to be negative adjectives when no sin is involved any longer? I´m pretty confident that on weekends or after work (which will be just as exciting and fulfilling in the new reign) my new flesh will have a blast on the new earth. And I don´t see myself playing the harp 24/7.

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