Police seize gun collector's firearms in 'over the top' raid

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  • #11056
    Tony Koretz
    Keymaster

      Police seize gun collector’s firearms in ‘over the top’ raid

      A community-minded contractor who dug the mass grave for victims of the mosque shootings for free says police went “way over the top” in raiding his house to seize his 11 firearms.

      The colourful figure – who asked not to be named for security reasons but whose record of helping out people in the community and raising money is known to have endeared him to many – said about 30 police raided his west Christchurch block on April 2 about 5pm while he was still at work.

      Some were Armed Offenders Squad members and others were in ordinary police uniform. A specialist search squad searched his house, outbuildings and a granny flat housing his 80-year-old mother.

      “They even went through her underwear drawer. The worst thing was they pointed a rifle at my 12-year-old daughter who was picking up horse poo. They told her to put the fork down and walk towards them. She is still anxious and shaken. The whole family is.”

      READ MORE https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/112634121/police-seize-gun-collectors-firearms-in-over-the-top-raid

      • This topic was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Tony Koretz.

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      #11058
      Tony Koretz
      Keymaster

        Firearms registration would be an expensive and worthless exercise

        When people suggest that all firearms in New Zealand should be registered, they leave out one important word. “Again”. This country had registration and then discarded it. Because it was 66 per cent inaccurate and completely worthless.

        Canada has just dumped its system, due to it being billions of dollars over budget and delivering nothing useful at any price.

        I have just put several handguns in the upcoming Antique Arms auction. This necessitated acquiring permits to change the registered ownership. Sure enough, the police records were wrong. Again.

        This despite only just having had two audits of my small collection in the previous year. Those records were inaccurate as well. As the police list has been every time I renew my firearms licence.

        Criminals don’t register firearms. They also grind off the serial numbers of the guns they steal or smuggle. So, a system costing hundreds of millions of tax dollars is easily undone within seconds with a stolen grinder.

        READ MORE https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/111100032/firearms-registration-would-be-an-expensive-and-worthless-exercise?rm=m

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        #11061
        Tony Koretz
        Keymaster

          When the NZ Government announced that they were banning semi-automtic weapons, by and large probably the majority of people in New Zealand accepted that. No one wants a repeat of the Christchurch attack. But I don’t recall any mention of the fact that antique lever action Winchester rifles and such, would also be banned because they hold more than 10 cartridges in the fixed magazine they were made with. The new law states ”
          “Other magazines, detachable or not, that are capable of holding more than 10 rounds.”
          So what are they going to do with the 100-150 year old antique guns like the Winchester 1873, or Winchester 1890 and 1906 .22’s they will confiscate? Are they going to melt down these antique collectible items? Do most NZer’s realise that these guns are now illegal to own? Guns that have been here since the days of the horse and cart!

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          #11062
          Tony Koretz
          Keymaster

            I guess I grew up thinking the police in NZ were bastions of trust and honesty…people you looked up to. NZ was the country with no corruption. But if the police are dishonest, then who do you trust? Certainly not the politicians! Ok, so they didn’t tell a straight up lie. But when the police videos of banned guns were done, they produced the meanest nastiest semi-autos and most peope went “oh we don’t want those…ban them!” But what if the police officer had come into Parliament with a .22 Winchester gallery gun that’s over 100 years old and said…”oh and this is now a banned weapon as well even though it’s been in NZ for well over 100 years” What would the public and the politicians have thought then about rushing a new law in? It’s a stealthy form of dishonesty in my mind.

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            #11064
            Tony Koretz
            Keymaster

              This photo was taken in the 1980’s on Kapiti Island before it was made into a wildlife sanctuary. Can you spot which one of the guns in the picture would now be an illegal weapon in NZ?

              Kapiti Island in the 1890's

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              #11065
              MattS
              Senior Moderator

                Was that the 1890’s or a photoshopped 1980’s photo
                My guess would be all of the guns would probably be illegal

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                #11066
                Tony Koretz
                Keymaster

                  Was that the 1890’s or a photoshopped 1980’s photo
                  My guess would be all of the guns would probably be illegal

                  That’s a genuine photo from the 1890’s of a hunting party on Kapiti Island before it was a reserve. I have a large version of it. It’s public domain. I have a small version of it in a book on early NZ from the 1970’s that I have, and I searched for the original online and found it in the National Library archives. There’s a Winchester repeating rifle in the picture that probably had a 15 round magazine and so it would now be illegal. The other guns would still be legal (double barrel and single barrel shotguns and a .22)

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                  #11080
                  Tony Koretz
                  Keymaster

                    If you get past the sensationalised title of this article, and the first couple of paragraphs, you find that the truth is that out of over 1000 homicides, only 167 of those involved guns. So, would those criminals just have chosen a different weapon if they had no gun? Then when you take the 51 deaths from the Christchurch attack out of it you are left with 116 firearm related deaths spread over 15 years. Take the Christchurch attack out of it, and that’s 7-8 people a year on average. Seven people out of over 4.8 million people are killed by a gun each year ( on average). Or put another way- approximately one person out of every 685,000 people gets killed by a gun each year. That is very, very low by global standards. Now the article also admitted that most of the murderers didn’t even have a firearms license, and that a third of them were gang related. Gangs file serial numbers off the guns they steal. So a register won’t help trace those guns. Also note that they banned 100-150 year old Winchester lever action rifles, and not just semi automatics in April. Guns that have been in NZ since the horse and cart- now illegal because they hold more than 10 rounds. Are they going to melt down those antiques they confiscate? There is an agenda to sensationalise gun crime and make the 250,000 legal guns owners look bad. When you actually look at facts however, gun crime in NZ is very low by global standards.

                    The Homicide Report gives a detailed account of gun violence in New Zealand
                    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/112559564/the-homicide-report-gives-a-detailed-account-of-gun-violence-in-new-zealand#comments

                    • This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by Tony Koretz.

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                    #12017
                    Tony Koretz
                    Keymaster

                      This irritates me. There goes an antique for destruction because someone basically didn’t bother it have it modified to keep it legal. Done properly the modification would not have even been visible. I hope other’s don’t follow this same course of action that this guy has if they have antique guns, because once it’s been handed in, then it goes to the shredder and that’s that. There would be other people who would love to have had that Winchester to modify and keep it legal. And the scheme even allows up to $300 paid out to do the modification. From the article:

                      Malcolm Whalley was surrendering his antique .22 Winchester, a pump action rifle made in 1911.
                      “It’s a beautiful little rifle. A shame to see it destroyed but if it gets some of the dangerous stuff out of circulation then that’s the point,” he said.
                      He knew the rifle could be modified but that would destroy its intrinsic value, he said.
                      The rifle was in poor condition so it was valued at $500.
                      “It should really be in a museum,” he said.

                      READ MORE https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/114215888/governments-first-gun-buyback-event-under-way

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                      #12112
                      Tony Koretz
                      Keymaster

                        I wonder if they will listen to submissions from the public and firearms license holders properly this time or will they try to bulldoze it through like the first round of changes?

                        Second tranche of gun law changes: Firearms register, tighter licencing

                        The second tranche of proposed gun law changes has been announced which will include a firearms register and a tighter licencing system.

                        The next Arms Amendment Bill – following the ban on military-style semi-automatic weapons and assault rifles – will include establishing a firearms register and requiring licences to be renewed every five years.

                        It will also “enshrine in law that owning a firearm is a privilege and comes with an obligation to demonstrate a high level of safety and responsibility”.

                        Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern made the announcement alongside Police Minister Stuart Nash on Monday. It’s the second set of gun law changes following the terror attack on 15 March.

                        “The changes announced today have been decades in the making. It is now up to this Parliament to deliver in the interests of public and personal safety,” Ardern said.

                        Nash said the vast majority of our gun owners are law-abiding and responsible, but emphasised that owning a gun is a “privilege, not a right”.

                        “The law changes will reinforce the positive behaviour that is required of all gun owners,” he said.

                        The legislation is being drafted and is due for introduction in late August. It will spend three months at select committee for public feedback.

                        The second tranche of legislation will include:
                        Establishing a firearms register
                        Make owning a gun a “privilege” that comes with obligations
                        Tighten the rules to obtain and keep a gun licence
                        Tighten the rules for gun dealers to get and keep a licence
                        Require licences to be renewed every five years
                        Not allow visitors to purchase guns in New Zealand
                        Introduce a new warning system for police so they can intervene if they have concerns about a licence holder’s behaviour
                        Introduce a licencing system for shooting clubs and ranges
                        Set up an expert group to advise the police on firearms
                        Introduce new advertising standards around guns
                        Require licences to buy magazines, parts and ammunition
                        Increase penalties and introduce new offences
                        Newshub.

                        READ MORE https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/07/second-tranche-of-gun-law-changes-firearms-register-tighter-licencing.html

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