December 17, 2019 at 3:41 am #13147oneekaParticipant
Hi everyone. Like most of you I’m sure, I’ve been hearing a lot about the rapture and the Gog / Magog war lately as the right nations seem to be getting into place for this event. However, I do believe it is important to let scripture interpret scripture without leaving any of it out. I am by no means any expert, but in reading Ezekiel, the Gospels and Revelation ‘side by side’, would I be correct in making the following correlations? I have made every effort to put aside the teachings and preachings I’ve heard and listen only directly to what the scriptures say:
1. (Giving us an ‘order of events perspective) – Revelation 16 – the Mark of the Beast has already been implemented and judgments are coming against it.
2. Revelation 16v14 – the demonic spirits are ‘performing signs'(ref 2nd Thessalonians 2v9 – the coming of the lawless one is by the activity of satan with all power and false signs and wonders).
3. Revelation 16v15 – (“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”) – (ref Mat 24v39b-43: ‘…so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into.’ And ref Luke 17v24: For as lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day…but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulphur rained from heaven and destroyed them all – so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed…I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left.
Question 1: why would Jesus have put verse 15 in the middle of the battle of Armageddon preparations if it was not to give us a clue? He used the same words he used in the gospels – ‘the thief’, ‘stay awake’, and the ‘garments’ from the wedding feast parable. I know no one knows the day or the hour, but he said to stay awake to the signs of the times. Surely this is an indication of when the rapture will happen in the order of events?
Question 2: If the above true, why are people preaching that the rapture could happen any day and saying the Bible gives no pre-requisite for the rapture to happen?
4. Revelation 16v16 – they (the false trinity) assembled them at Armageddon.
5. Rev 19v17-19: Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, “come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great. And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who on its behalf had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the Mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur. (Ref Ezekiel 39v17-20: …speak to the birds of every sort and to all beasts of the field, “assemble and come, gather from all around to the sacrificial feast that I am preparing for you, a great sacrificial feast on the mountains of Israel, and you shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and of rams, of lambs, and of he-goats and of bulls, all of them fat beasts of Bashan. And you shall eat fat till you are filled, and drink blood till you are drunk, at the sacrificial feast that I am preparing for you. And you shall be filled at my table with horses and charioteers, with mighty men and all kinds of warriors,” declares the Lord.)
Question: Does this not explain the same event? Surely this is the battle of Armageddon?
6. Rev 20v7-9: And when the thousand years are ended, satan will be released from his prison and come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle…and they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them. (Ref Ezekiel 39v6: I will send fire on Magog and on those who dwell securely in the coastlands, and they shall know that I am the Lord.)
Question: is this not the Gog / Magog war? If Armageddon happens first, and the Gog / Magog war only happens after the millennial reign, why is everyone preaching about the Ezekiel 38 prophecy being imminently fulfilled?
7. Also, in-between the preparation for the battle of Armageddon (Revelation 16) and the battle itself (Revelation 19), is the judgment of the prostitute. I know this is controversial, but if we read chapter 17-18 of Revelation and we cross reference with Matthew 23v33-35, Matthew 23v37, Proverbs 6v15 & 17, Isaiah 1v21 &31, Isaiah 3v9, Isaiah 1v10 and Revelation 11v8, just for a few examples, it seems the prostitute is identified – and doesn’t this imply then that we would be expecting the earthquake (Rev 16v18-19) and judgments and calamity to come on Israel before we see God stepping in to crush her adversaries? In the rest of Ezekiel, chapter 36-37, before the Gog / Magog battle, it says ‘all of them’ have come back to the land – that hasn’t happened yet – and that they will be living according to God’s statutes – which they are not doing at the moment. So why do we think the Gog / Magog battle is imminent, if it seems a lot of other things have to happen first?
I am not a theologian, I have no degrees, please forgive me if my understanding is limited. I’m not looking for a heated debate, I’m only looking for the truth. My genuine concern is that with everyone preaching on this war about to happen and God will step in and deliver Israel – what happens if what they are preaching doesn’t happen because they’re ahead of themselves? What if the rapture is still a long time away, after the mark of the beast becomes law? Surely it will cause many to lose faith? God has never rewarded idolatry, and at the moment, Israel is putting their hope in their ‘gods of metal’ – weaponry and technology, and they are having gay pride parades through the streets of Jerusalem – isn’t it in the pattern of God to judge immorality first, and then bless repentance? I am hoping on this forum there are people with more experience or understanding than me who can help me understand this – strictly from the scriptures.
Many thanks everyone,
God blessDecember 31, 2019 at 9:58 am #13284Tony KoretzKeymaster
It is hard to try and piece it all together in terms of timelines etc. here is a good article on the rapture that was published yesterday by Angela Georgantas. It is well balanced:
Burnt Rolls and the Timing of the Rapture
I burned the cinnamon rolls on Christmas Day. I thought I had set the timer correctly, but it’s a relatively new oven, so I guess I didn’t. When my husband asked about breakfast, I pulled the rolls out. He saw them and said, “When you have something in the oven, you have to watch it.” Now, he’s the one who does most of the cooking in our house (for a good reason!), and I knew he was right. Still, I just kept thinking to myself, “But, I set the timer!” All of a sudden, the correlation between that situation and the timing of the rapture hit me. Just about everyone has “set a timer” in their minds for when the rapture will take place. But what if that timer is wrong?
The timing of the rapture is a contentious topic among Christians. It’s not a matter of salvation, but as we get deeper and deeper into these last days, people are understandably thinking about it. Before we get to that, though, there are a few terms that I would like to explore just so everyone understands the vast array of beliefs about the end times.
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